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Zoga50
QUOTE
Singapore rejects Nguyen clemency appeal

The Australian Government's pleas for Singaporean authorities to spare the life of convicted drug trafficker Van Nguyen from Melbourne have suffered yet another set back.

Last month, Van Nguyen's appeal for clemency was rejected and he is expected to be hanged in about a month.

Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer wrote to his Singaporean counterpart last week asking for him to reconsider the death sentence.

Mr Downer argued the Australian man may be a crucial witness in future prosecutions of drug traffickers.

He says that could mean Nguyen will be hanged within six weeks.

"Last night I received a letter back from [Trade Minister] George Yeo saying that whilst the Singapore Government understood the concern of the Australian Government and the Australian people, all of these arguments had been carefully considered by the Singapore Cabinet and that they wouldn't change their minds," he said.

Nguyen's lawyer Lex Lasry QC says there is still hope.

"We have put a document to the Singapore High Commissioner on Monday, the document that I presented to him from Julian McMahon and myself, and that hasn't yet been responded to, and there is still one other aspect in relation to his police assistance that might be able to be pursued," he said.

Opposition foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd says he will not give up the fight to save Nguyen's life.

"My attitude has always been, where there is life, there is hope, and we intend to keep going on this matter," he said.

"We don't intend to let this matter drop, we think we've got a responsibility to put this matter directly in front of the Singaporean Government and people."


Australians hang your heads in shame.

Where is the media frenzy for this man? Just because he looks Asian does that mean he is somehow a lesser Australian than wide-eyed crybaby Schapelle Corby? Where's the demands to take aid money back from Singapore?

It reeks of racism. Somehow we Australians still believe we're living in the good old British empire and can lord over these Asian savages. Guess what? Our economy is a fraction of theirs and our governments answer to them.
zer0
You're a moron, he should die. Maybe you have forgotten that he had the drugs strapped to his back? He's guilty. Too bad. We shouldn't interfere with another country's legal system when it's done it's job.

Schapelle was a different case, which I agree, shouldn't got near as much publicity as it did, but she can't be proved 100% guilty, it's just circumstantial evidence as no one saw her put any drugs in her bag and shes claimed innocence all the way.

It's not racist, its the fact that this guy is blatently guilty of importing drugs where Schappelle is not, atleast get your facts straight.

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Nguyen, then 22, was arrested during a routine check at Singapore's Changi International Airport on December 12, 2002, boarding a Qantas flight to Melbourne carrying almost 400 grams of heroin. One package was found in his luggage while a second was strapped to his back. Under Singapore law, death by hanging is mandatory for anyone possessing 15 grams or more of heroin.

The Australian citizen was returning from Cambodia with heroin for a Sydney syndicate. He was to deliver the drugs in return for money to pay his twin brother's legal debts of up to $20,000.

Nguyen had been asleep in the transit lounge and woke up 10 minutes before his plane was due to leave. He ran to gate C22 and put his backpack and business bag on the X-ray machine. "Then I walked through the metal detector," Nguyen told Singaporean police after his arrest, "and as I was crossing, it beeped. At that point in time, I knew I was going to be caught."


http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/savi...0006060733.html
Zoga50
I don't agree totally. This guy could've pleaded innocent all the way and cried his heart out but no one in Aus would've cared.

Not only that, the Federal government send their best lawyers to defend Corby for a mere 15 years sentence while this guy is receiving the death sentence. Where's the protests at the Singaporean embassy?

We're a racist country. We're in Asia but we refuse to get off our high horse and admit it.
zer0
QUOTE (Zoga50 @ Nov 4 2005, 13:04) *
I don't agree totally. This guy could've pleaded innocent all the way and cried his heart out but no one in Aus would've cared.


Could've, Would've, Should've. Whatever, I deal in facts, he's guilty, he admits it, he was caught, he pays the price for the crime.

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Not only that, the Federal government send their best lawyers to defend Corby for a mere 15 years sentence while this guy is receiving the death sentence. Where's the protests at the Singaporean embassy?


Can you give me a link that says the government provided lawyers? In all the correspondence I've seen, her lawyers we're arguing with the government to give them information, or to provide them with help and the original team of lawyers were funded by Ron Bakir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Bakir) and the second set volunteered and were indonesian.

See for more info:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1408548.htm

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We're a racist country. We're in Asia but we refuse to get off our high horse and admit it.


We're actually in Oceania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania

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The primary use of the term Oceania is to describe a continental region (like Europe or Africa) that lies between Asia and the Americas, with Australia as the major land mass. The name Oceania is used, rather than Australia, because unlike the other continental groupings, it is the ocean rather than the continent that links the nations together. Oceania is the smallest continental grouping in land area and the second smallest, after Antarctica, in population.


Also, on the subject of racism, sure some people are, but you accusing everyone of not helping a person because they're asian doesn't really help at all. The fact is his guilty, and if he's guilty, he should be punished like anyone else, inline with the countries laws. The Schapelle case, and this case are completely different. Nguyen has pleaded guilty and admitted to the crime, Corby has maintained innocence and there is no evidence that suggests she is beyond a doubt guilty.

I think you really need to research before you decide to take such a strong standpoint.
Zoga50
QUOTE (zer0 @ Nov 4 2005, 14:53) *
Could've, Would've, Should've. Whatever, I deal in facts, he's guilty, he admits it, he was caught, he pays the price for the crime.


That's bullshit. Around the time Corby was caught there were 2 men being sentenced in Vietnam who pleaded innocent and I think one more awaiting trial in Singapore. Ever wonder why those cases and dozens like them received no attention?

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Can you give me a link that says the government provided lawyers? In all the correspondence I've seen, her lawyers we're arguing with the government to give them information, or to provide them with help and the original team of lawyers were funded by Ron Bakir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Bakir) and the second set volunteered and were indonesian.


She has an Australian team of lawyers (one Queensland QC I think?) who assist her and those were introduced by the Federal Government. They however do not participate in her defence in Indonesia.

QUOTE
Also, on the subject of racism, sure some people are, but you accusing everyone of not helping a person because they're asian doesn't really help at all. The fact is his guilty, and if he's guilty, he should be punished like anyone else, inline with the countries laws. The Schapelle case, and this case are completely different. Nguyen has pleaded guilty and admitted to the crime, Corby has maintained innocence and there is no evidence that suggests she is beyond a doubt guilty.

I think you really need to research before you decide to take such a strong standpoint.


I don't believe you if you told me that if Nguyen was in the same position as Corby he'd get nearly the same kind of attention from the Australian public. And no, don't tell me "I only deal with facts" because that's weak - use your pre-frontal cortex properly. Even if we do not defend him for his crimes we should defend him against the death penalty, which we as a nation feel is wrong to apply. Surely this is at least one of the things that we complained about against the Indonesians?

I could argue all day about Australia being racist if you like. Take a look at One Nation, assimilation policy, White Australia Policy, etc and we're almost as guilty as Hitler. I wonder why that's never taught in Australian history...
zer0
QUOTE (Zoga50 @ Nov 4 2005, 20:28) *
That's bullshit. Around the time Corby was caught there were 2 men being sentenced in Vietnam who pleaded innocent and I think one more awaiting trial in Singapore. Ever wonder why those cases and dozens like them received no attention?


If you know so much about them, link me to details please and prove me wrong.

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She has an Australian team of lawyers (one Queensland QC I think?) who assist her and those were introduced by the Federal Government. They however do not participate in her defence in Indonesia.


In searching I can't see that they were introduced by the Australian government. Link to evidence please.

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I don't believe you if you told me that if Nguyen was in the same position as Corby he'd get nearly the same kind of attention from the Australian public. And no, don't tell me "I only deal with facts" because that's weak - use your pre-frontal cortex properly. Even if we do not defend him for his crimes we should defend him against the death penalty, which we as a nation feel is wrong to apply. Surely this is at least one of the things that we complained about against the Indonesians?


Once again, it's only something you assume, it's your opinion. I really don't know, he probably wouldn't have recieved as much attention because he's not an attractive female. I'm sure there's plenty of normal, australian white guys that have been caught before and haven't recieved the attention of Corby. It's not a race thing, unless you can prove to me, which I don't think you can. It's because she was an attractive female who the media latched on to, if it was a beer belly'd aussie bloke, I can assure you that he wouldn't get the same attention, even if he is white.

QUOTE
I could argue all day about Australia being racist if you like. Take a look at One Nation, assimilation policy, White Australia Policy, etc and we're almost as guilty as Hitler. I wonder why that's never taught in Australian history...


Yeah, almost as guilty as Hitler rolleyes.gif

also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law lol smile.gif

Some of the things you mention above I don't agree with, but hey, the government can make mistakes, and in the position they are in, they can be huge mistakes. This doesn't make the country racist. One Nation, if anything, is the opposite. It's shows that our nation is democratic, and people can express their views. Not all of One Nation's policies we're based on race or were racist, and the fact that they went terrible in the last election should say the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, being the fact that most people do not agree with their policies, and thats why they weren't voted in.

Look, if you are going to argue, do some research, stop spouting off things you can't back up or is opinion and not fact, and provide evidence otherwise you just come across as a 16 year old who jut did a debate in English.
Zoga50
QUOTE
In searching I can't see that they were introduced by the Australian government. Link to evidence please.


Australian Broadcasting Corporation

TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT

LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1381437.htm

Broadcast: 31/05/2005
Perth QC on board for Corby appeal

Reporter: Kellie Tannock

KERRY O'BRIEN: When Shapelle Corby begins her lengthy appeal process she may be armed with a much stronger defence team than she has had in Bali. Veteran Perth QC Tom Percy has come on board, with a second silk facilitated by the Australian Government to help with the appeal. Percy is renowned for clearing the names of West Australians John Button and Daryl Beamish more than 40 years after their convictions. Both men served lengthy prison terms for murders they didn't commit. So can the boy from Kalgoorlie do the same for Schapelle Corby within the confines of Indonesia's legal system? Kellie Tannock reports. [truncated]

QUOTE (zer0 @ Nov 4 2005, 22:07) *
Some of the things you mention above I don't agree with, but hey, the government can make mistakes, and in the position they are in, they can be huge mistakes. This doesn't make the country racist. One Nation, if anything, is the opposite. It's shows that our nation is democratic, and people can express their views. Not all of One Nation's policies we're based on race or were racist, and the fact that they went terrible in the last election should say the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, being the fact that most people do not agree with their policies, and thats why they weren't voted in.


You're kidding me aren't you? How about you take off your pretentious views of Australia for once? Do you think we're the innocent, moral, tolerant country that the government makes us out to be?

You obviously have little idea of democracy if you say that racism is a part of it. Democracy allows proportional weighting of representation in our parliament so that there is prioritisation of social policies, not so the dominant white Caucasian majority can express their views and subjugate the rest of the population. Not even the US First Amendment allows that kind of bullshit.

As for One Nation, use your brain. Where did they derive the majority of their support from? Queensland. What population makes up a significant proportion of Queensland? White Caucasian farmers, who are probably the most racist group of all.

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Look, if you are going to argue, do some research, stop spouting off things you can't back up or is opinion and not fact, and provide evidence otherwise you just come across as a 16 year old who jut did a debate in English.


I can argue because I understand such matters as the past racist policies of Australia well and I do not believe it has changed in White Caucasian Australia. I think you have a misunderstanding of what true research is. No one is going to make a research paper documenting the incidence of racism since Federation, nor is this kind of thing encouraged by the government.

I can type "racism+australia" into google and it gives me >3.5million sites. Is this research? No.

Hence my argument is that by the general flattened response of Nguyen's case (as well as other Australians being trialled who look Asian) juxtaposed against the hyper-activity of the Corby case is thus a reflection of the underlying racism.

However if you like background reading on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_Policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_generation
(these are pretty bad articles, there are many good journal articles from the School of Population Health at my university but they're all in print form only)
zer0
QUOTE (Zoga50 @ Nov 6 2005, 14:07) *
You're kidding me aren't you? How about you take off your pretentious views of Australia for once? Do you think we're the innocent, moral, tolerant country that the government makes us out to be?

You obviously have little idea of democracy if you say that racism is a part of it. Democracy allows proportional weighting of representation in our parliament so that there is prioritisation of social policies, not so the dominant white Caucasian majority can express their views and subjugate the rest of the population. Not even the US First Amendment allows that kind of bullshit.

As for One Nation, use your brain. Where did they derive the majority of their support from? Queensland. What population makes up a significant proportion of Queensland? White Caucasian farmers, who are probably the most racist group of all.


How about you take your anti-Australian hat off? I say this purely hypothetically, but if Australia is so bad, why not migrate to a new one, or why aren't you out there making a change instead of having a petty arguement on an internet message board?

Democracy allows people to view their opinions and attempt to bring them to the political arena also, and if people support these views, they can be elected through the voting system.

One Nation has fuck all influence on the Australian political system, they basically have little to no power, which proves that Australia does not support their policies.

QUOTE
I can argue because I understand such matters as the past racist policies of Australia well and I do not believe it has changed in White Caucasian Australia. I think you have a misunderstanding of what true research is. No one is going to make a research paper documenting the incidence of racism since Federation, nor is this kind of thing encouraged by the government.

I can type "racism+australia" into google and it gives me >3.5million sites. Is this research? No.

Hence my argument is that by the general flattened response of Nguyen's case (as well as other Australians being trialled who look Asian) juxtaposed against the hyper-activity of the Corby case is thus a reflection of the underlying racism.


As I said, goverment's do make incorrect policies, look at things such as slavery in the US. Things change. "White Caucasian Australia" is around because, surprise, as much as you hate it, the majority of Australia is White Caucasians. It's only through our willingness to open doors for immigration in the past to allow for such a multicutural society.

The fact still stands that Nguyen is guilty, beyond a doubt. He has admitted it, it's sad, but the penalty of death is the penalty he pays for taking the risk. Schapelle cannot be proved beyond a doubt, if she can, that evidence hasn't came forward, I'd more than willingly see her get the death penalty if she was proved guilty beyond a doubt, as bad as the media coverage would be.

Also,

QUOTE
The Governor-General, Major-General Michael Jeffery, and Sydney's Catholic Archbishop, Cardinal George Pell, also requested clemency, as did every member of the federal parliamentary Labor Party.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/mot...0006003287.html

Sounds like quite a few high ranking and low ranking officials in our goverment has attempted to get him off death row. You've proved that the government helped corby with some legal issues, it seems the government has assisted in this case as well.
Dwubbo
QUOTE
While Singapore hangs small-time drug peddlars, the government continues to trade lavishly with Burma - the world's largest producer of heroin. The hypocrisy begs attention.


Source - http://www.singapore-window.org/1020csj.htm

Just a little information on Singapore's background on drugs
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