david2006
May 23 2006, 17:34
Henry Makow, is the inventor of the board game Scruples, and the author of A Long Way to go for a Date. He received his Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of Toronto. His articles can be found at http://www.savethemales.ca/------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On my wall, I have a picture of a Muslim woman shrouded in a burka.
Beside it is a picture of an American beauty contestant, wearing nothing but a bikini.
One woman is totally hidden from the public; the other is totally exposed. These two extremes say a great deal about the clash of so-called "civilizations."
The role of woman is at the heart of any culture. Apart from stealing Arab oil, the impending war in the Middle East is about stripping Arabs of their religion and culture, exchanging the burka for a bikini.
I am not an expert on the condition of Muslim women and I love feminine beauty too much to advocate the burka here. But I am defending some of the values that the burka represents for me.
For me, the burka represents a woman's consecration to her husband and family. Only they see her.
It affirms the privacy, exclusivity and importance of the domestic sphere.
The Muslim woman's focus is her home, the "nest" where her children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training her children, providing refuge and support to her husband.
In contrast, the bikinied American beauty queen struts practically naked in front of millions on TV. A feminist, she belongs to herself. In practice, paradoxically, she is public property. She belongs to no one and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is auctioning herself all of the time.
In America, the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal. (As this asset depreciates quickly, she is neurotically obsessed with appearance and plagued by weight problems.)
As an adolescent, her role model is Britney Spears, a singer whose act approximates a strip tease. From Britney, she learns that she will be loved only if she gives sex. Thus, she learns to "hook up" rather than to demand patient courtship and true love. As a result, dozens of males know her before her husband does. She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to receive her husband's seed.
The feminine personality is founded on the emotional relationship between mother and baby. It is based on nurturing and self-sacrifice. Masculine nature is founded on the relationship between hunter and prey. It is based on aggression and reason.
Feminism teaches woman that feminine nature has resulted in "oppression" and that she should convert to male behavior instead. The result: a confused and aggressive woman with a large chip on her shoulder, unfit to become a wife or mother.
This, of course, is the goal of the social engineers at the NWO: undermine sexual identity and destroy the family, create social and personal dysfunction, and reduce population. In the "brave new world," women are not supposed to be "nest" makers, or progenitors of the race. They are meant to be neutered autonomous creatures that indulge in sex for physical pleasure, not for love or procreation.
At his press conference on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld said that Iranian women and youth were restive under the rule of the Mullahs. He implied that the US would soon liberate them. To Britney Spears? To low-rise "see-my-thong" pants? To the mutual masturbation that passes for sexuality in America?
Parenthood is the pinnacle of human development. It is the stage when we finally graduate from self-indulgence and become God's surrogates: creating and nurturing new life. The New World Order does not want us to reach this level of maturity. Pornography is the substitute for marriage. We are to remain stunted: single, sex-starved and self-obsessed.
We are not meant to have a permanent "private" life. We are to remain lonely and isolated, dependent on consumer products for our identity, in a state of perpetual courtship.
This is especially destructive for woman. Her sexual attraction is a function of her fertility. As fertility declines, so does her sex appeal. If a woman devotes her prime years to becoming "independent," she is not likely to find a permanent mate.
Her long-term personal fulfillment and happiness lies in making marriage and family her first priority.
Feminism is another cruel New World Order hoax that has debauched American women and despoiled Western civilization. It has ruined millions of lives and represents a lethal threat to Islam.
I am not advocating the burka but rather some of the values that it represents, specifically a woman's consecration to her future husband and family, and the modesty and dignity this entails.
The burka and the bikini represent two extremes. The answer lies somewhere in the middle.
dkreifus
May 23 2006, 17:49
This guy is just nuts. Proof?
QUOTE
Satanism is Habit Forming: Ex White House spokesman Ari Fleischer gives the Horned hand Signal
In regards to:

or...Ari Fleischer likes the Longhorns. Or he likes Heavy Metal music. Or he belongs to a historic intellectual society. Or he is just making a hand gesture for '2'. or maybe he was about to poke Moe in the eyes.
The Devil's Work: Feminism and the Elite Depopulation AgendaQUOTE
Our purpose is to know ourselves to be Divine. G-d is the principle of our evolution, both personal and collective.
QUOTE
The Elite modus operandi is to finance and promote disgruntled minorities in order to destabilize and undermine the world. Feminism is a prime example. It pretends to be about giving women equal opportunity in the workplace when in fact it is devoted to discouraging women from seeking fulfillment in motherhood
Yea..this guy is rational....
Hell..look at his domain name. SAVE THE MALES.
He's a sexist, ultra conservative religious wack job. With a PhD. And he spews so much nonsense. He uses a thesarus and a larger vocabulary to sound like what he says makes sense.
potterface
May 23 2006, 20:23
QUOTE(dkreifus @ May 23 2006, 10:49)

He's a sexist, ultra conservative religious wack job. With a PhD.
now THAT's a title.
well, doens't he put it all nice and fuzzy... Too bad he neglected the little fact that the bikini woman can wear a burka if she wants, but the other one is not allowed to take it off. Never mind her own wishes. After all, her only role in life is to reproduce. *sigh*
the ad thing, is I bet the picture is of a hijab, but not a burqa. he probably also doesn't realize this didn't begin with the Muslims,.. but extends into the past far before Islam.
and he clearly seems to have no idea of razanne
(the edicts of modestly and beauty a hijab supports.)
the hijab is NOT to protect a woman from the eyes of other men, or to not allure me. it is meant to protect from a harsh climate, to preserve her pale soft skin, which will turn to leather in the desert... and to add a level of heightened intimacy that climaxes at the consecration on the marriage bed. which is why in the beginning, it was worn in the daytime, but it was common for a woman to have bare breasts at nightime.
the burqa instead was a harsher heavier garment used to move harems through the caravans of the merchants who sold them as prostitutes. it was done so the human merchandise didn't lose value due to weathering, and to assert dominance over the slaves.
but whatever, he thinks the war is about oil as well..,
Brains
May 26 2006, 18:06
QUOTE(raum @ May 26 2006, 17:01)

but whatever, he thinks the war is about oil as well..,

(for that quoted topic there) what a fool!
QUOTE(bd55 @ May 25 2006, 23:23)

well, doens't he put it all nice and fuzzy... Too bad he neglected the little fact that the bikini woman can wear a burka if she wants, but the other one is not allowed to take it off. Never mind her own wishes. After all, her only role in life is to reproduce. *sigh*
I couldn't get more angry than I am, when I read this. Who the H... are you to say that we aren't allowed to take veil or burka of. You are very uneducated on this issue.
I wear veil and I can take it of this very minute! Let me just remind all uneducated just like you that in most islamic countries it's up to the woman what to wear. I'm originally from Iraq and can take the veil of and wear just like what they wear in the West, but I choose not to.
Countries like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Iran do not allow women to be out in public without the veil.
Singh400
Jun 8 2006, 16:57
QUOTE(Fatima @ Jun 8 2006, 17:17)

QUOTE(bd55 @ May 25 2006, 23:23)

well, doens't he put it all nice and fuzzy... Too bad he neglected the little fact that the bikini woman can wear a burka if she wants, but the other one is not allowed to take it off. Never mind her own wishes. After all, her only role in life is to reproduce. *sigh*
I couldn't get more angry than I am, when I read this. Who the H... are you to say that we aren't allowed to take veil or burka of. You are very uneducated on this issue.
I wear veil and I can take it of this very minute! Let me just remind all uneducated just like you that in most islamic countries it's up to the woman what to wear. I'm originally from Iraq and can take the veil of and wear just like what they wear in the West, but I choose not to.
Countries like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Iran do not allow women to be out in public without the veil.
@bd55: Oh shit dude, you just got told.
SquirrelyWrath
Jun 8 2006, 21:15
QUOTE(Singh400 @ Jun 8 2006, 09:57)

QUOTE(Fatima @ Jun 8 2006, 17:17)

QUOTE(bd55 @ May 25 2006, 23:23)

well, doens't he put it all nice and fuzzy... Too bad he neglected the little fact that the bikini woman can wear a burka if she wants, but the other one is not allowed to take it off. Never mind her own wishes. After all, her only role in life is to reproduce. *sigh*
I couldn't get more angry than I am, when I read this. Who the H... are you to say that we aren't allowed to take veil or burka of. You are very uneducated on this issue.
I wear veil and I can take it of this very minute! Let me just remind all uneducated just like you that in most islamic countries it's up to the woman what to wear. I'm originally from Iraq and can take the veil of and wear just like what they wear in the West, but I choose not to.
Countries like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Iran do not allow women to be out in public without the veil.
@bd55: Oh shit dude, you just got told.
lol major pwnage.
when i read that article, all i can do is just sigh and shake my head. it saddens me that the world is polluted by such unintelligence.
Candyman
Jun 9 2006, 15:55
The guy's an idiot. What garbage and how sexist and demeaning to woman can you get?
Fatima
Jun 10 2006, 11:14
QUOTE
lol major pwnage.
when i read that article, all i can do is just sigh and shake my head. it saddens me that the world is polluted by such unintelligence.
Sorry can you please clarify what you mean when you write, it saddens you that world is polluted by such unintelligence??
Didn't get that!
QUOTE(Fatima @ Jun 8 2006, 18:17)

Countries like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Iran do not allow women to be out in public without the veil.
So what you are saying is that woman are entirely free to decide whether they wear the veil or not, except when they happen to be living in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, and oh you forgot to mention some other area's, like the shi'ite (Southern) part of Iraq where coalition troops have jack shit to say and in the gaza strip where hamas has taken over, and oh yeah, in some neighbourhoods in Western European countries (like mine: in Belgian cities, but Paris is another fine example) where I happen to know girls that have given up walking in the streets without one, because they are called prostitutes by some brainwashed teenage (Muslim) boys.
I know what I see: Islam became more conservative in Western Europe. When I was a young boy (meaning +20 years ago), seeing a veil was very uncommon. Only the older woman had one, and none of the girls born here. Our Islamic population was going towards creating a new mixture form of Islam and Western style of life... And that has simply stopped, and is ever reversed. We will never know exactly why and how (and I'm convinced racism towards our immigrants played a big role in that process), but the growing segregation in out societies and the growing "us against them" feeling is one of the biggest disasters we are facing.
And I don't have a clue where all of this is going
Fatima
Jun 13 2006, 12:04
QUOTE(K2 @ Jun 13 2006, 08:17)

QUOTE(Fatima @ Jun 8 2006, 18:17)

Countries like Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Iran do not allow women to be out in public without the veil.
So what you are saying is that woman are entirely free to decide whether they wear the veil or not, except when they happen to be living in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, and oh you forgot to mention some other area's, like the shi'ite (Southern) part of Iraq where coalition troops have jack shit to say and in the gaza strip where hamas has taken over, and oh yeah, in some neighbourhoods in Western European countries (like mine: in Belgian cities, but Paris is another fine example) where I happen to know girls that have given up walking in the streets without one, because they are called prostitutes by some brainwashed teenage (Muslim) boys.
I know what I see: Islam became more conservative in Western Europe. When I was a young boy (meaning +20 years ago), seeing a veil was very uncommon. Only the older woman had one, and none of the girls born here. Our Islamic population was going towards creating a new mixture form of Islam and Western style of life... And that has simply stopped, and is ever reversed. We will never know exactly why and how (and I'm convinced racism towards our immigrants played a big role in that process), but the growing segregation in out societies and the growing "us against them" feeling is one of the biggest disasters we are facing.
And I don't have a clue where all of this is going

Let me just say that I forgot to name the places where Hijab (the veil) is not allowed to be taken of. But now don't be naiv.
What I meant was that a muslim woman can make her own choice wether to be veiled or unveiled in the MOST islamic countries.
The difference between the West and Middle East is that in Arab countries religion plays a much bigger role than it does in the Westeren countries. I've read the Bible and if it was the same case in the West, with religion playing a big role, you would pretty much be like us. But you don't cause religion is basicly made fun of in the West and you hardly ever see people take their religon serious like muslims do.
I'm very much against that women cannot take their own decisions and choose to be veiled or unveiled....in SOME countries and places. But if the woman choose to be veiled then I'm very much for that.
But please tell me what is your problem with the veil? Or to specify it more.....which problems does the veil cause in your opinion since you seem to be against it.
Fatima
What I have against it, is that some interpretations of Islam have brought the veil into their beliefs, mostly based on regional convictions: take the Wahhabism in Saudi-Arabia (that somehow also decided that woman driving a car is against Islamic belief) or the bourka from Afghanistan.
Both happen to be nations where womans rights aren't exactly "great", and I do think there is a link to be found there... I really hope someday those nations will see that 50% of their population is equally important as the other 50%, and like in Saudi-Arabia will allow woman to vote or drive cars.
But what for me, as a Western European, is most important: muslim woman in the West (of Europe) never bothered to wear a veil, because it wasn't considered as being part of islamic belief.
Since a couple of years, that has completely changed... Suddenly the veil is considered as being necessary to be a "good" muslim. Another example is the staggering percentage of girls that wants to restore their hymen when they get married (that has actually become a new sector in medicine since +/- 5 years! Gone up over 1000% over the last year I've read).
So for me the veil (and the fact that Western European muslim girls have started to wear it, and are even willing to go to court over it) is nothing more then a symptom of a growing religious conservatism in European Muslim groups, and that isn't a very happy thought, since it will divide our Western societies even further. In the last couple of years we have actually set steps back in the process of finding a way to live in harmony with each other.
i take issue with it because it shows a lack of understanding.
veils are not the only, or the most prominent forms of hijab.
Hijab simply means "modest dress" it means to not idolize yourself with a fixed mode of dress, and to remain unassuming in appearance, because Islam speaks of a essense that is beyond appearance. It was in Pakistan the veil became crucial.
so, how then is the veil hijab when everyone is in jeans and t-shirts? it is not, it is vain to dress up and demand attention and special case in the name of a piece of fabric to cover your face, when there is no cause for it. Not that i think there is anything wrong with that.
the veil is traditional to west, as was lady's scarves and later, hats.
essentially, the veil has become the religious symbol that the muslim has wrapped herself in, and it provokes the exact reaction that islam teaches idols are responsible for.
wearing the veil in a veiled culture is a matter of society and matter of pride, not faith and modesty.
The quotes in the Quran speak of veiling the BOSOM, not the FACE. and say for them women of Arabia to draw their cloaks close to them.
The people of the lands that are now Islamic nations had a cultural acceptance of toplessness, which was opposed by Muslims.
but the main issue was women were before islam and after regarded as commodity, not humanity. Even yesterday, women's rights activists were beaten down in the streets by iranian Police.
The entire middle east, to me, can not be regarded with umbrella. in some countries a woman veils her face willingly (which is supported in the Quran), in others she is forced to wear a head scarf, but nto a veil. In afghanistan, she may encounter hardship is she doesn't wear the burqa, and in others she may wear a miniskirt.
the truth is women are beutiful but fickle creatures in appearance, and islam hoped to quell this by uniformity, but this was long after the times of Mohammed, and it has had mixed success.
ahanix1989
Jun 13 2006, 18:04
Damn straight women are beautiful
Now let's all go out for frosty chocolate milkshakes
Fatima
Jun 14 2006, 11:24
QUOTE(K2 @ Jun 13 2006, 13:51)

What I have against it, is that some interpretations of Islam have brought the veil into their beliefs, mostly based on regional convictions: take the Wahhabism in Saudi-Arabia (that somehow also decided that woman driving a car is against Islamic belief) or the bourka from Afghanistan.
You keep mentioning Afganistan and Saudi Arabia etc. Womens rights in these countrie are very bad. And I wish I could give you an answer to why women aren't allowed to drive cars in these countries, but I can't and simply because Islam havn't forbidden it.
Nowhere in the Quran can one find that it's forbidden for women to vote or drive cars. If it really was forbidden then women in Iran (where the laws are very islamic) wouldn't have been given the permission to vote.
And of course a woman is not obliged to wear the burka...she is not even obliged to cover her face. I will keep on saying that the laws in those countries have nothing to do with Islam whatsoever, yet they're enforced in the name of Islam and that's what's called extremism.
QUOTE
Both happen to be nations where womans rights aren't exactly "great", and I do think there is a link to be found there... I really hope someday those nations will see that 50% of their population is equally important as the other 50%, and like in Saudi-Arabia will allow woman to vote or drive cars.
I wish that too!
QUOTE
But what for me, as a Western European, is most important: muslim woman in the West (of Europe) never bothered to wear a veil, because it wasn't considered as being part of islamic belief.
Since a couple of years, that has completely changed... Suddenly the veil is considered as being necessary to be a "good" muslim. Another example is the staggering percentage of girls that wants to restore their hymen when they get married (that has actually become a new sector in medicine since +/- 5 years! Gone up over 1000% over the last year I've read).
Well this is math not magic. 10 years ago the number of immigrants in Europe wasn't as large as it is these years, where the number has rised very largely. The first generation of immigrants was a small number and the second generation (the children of the first) have outnumbered the them 10 times and then the third generation. It has absolutely nothing to do with the veil suddenly being important for muslim girls or the hymen for that sake. It's nothing new.
I was 2 years old when I came to Denmark with my parents and I grew up and decided to wear the veil like many others I know....and we became many.
I believe we can all live happily together wether your a Muslim or a Christian....or whatever you believe in.
There's room for all of us wether your veiled or unveiled.
Fatima
TristanAnderson
Jul 7 2006, 21:17
Madrose
Jul 12 2006, 07:18
QUOTE
What I have against it, is that some interpretations of Islam have brought the veil into their beliefs, mostly based on regional convictions: take the Wahhabism in Saudi-Arabia (that somehow also decided that woman driving a car is against Islamic belief) or the bourka from Afghanistan.
Wahhabism is a very small group in Saudi, Suni is the domenant. It is abvious that you don't know much about Islam.
QUOTE
So for me the veil (and the fact that Western European muslim girls have started to wear it, and are even willing to go to court over it) is nothing more then a symptom of a growing religious conservatism in European Muslim groups, and that isn't a very happy thought, since it will divide our Western societies even further. In the last couple of years we have actually set steps back in the process of finding a way to live in harmony with each other.
I thought that you westerners claims to have the freedom that we in the middle east don't have!! And I always hear that you vote for freedom of believes, I wonder....
QUOTE(Madrose @ Jul 12 2006, 09:18)

Wahhabism is a very small group in Saudi, Suni is the domenant. It is abvious that you don't know much about Islam.
Well, you will probably know better then me... But isn't wahhabism a form of Sunni Islam?
And if it's such a small group without any influence, then why is it actually forbidden for woman to drive a car in Saudi-Arabia? Or aren't allowed to vote in the national elections?
I think it has a wee-bit more influence then you think...
"wahhabism" was a term describing a crucial factor to the forming of Saudi Arabia. Abdu I-Wahhab was the religious leader of the Kingdom of Ibn Saud. His sect was according to some very tolerant of Sufism and other religions and cultures. He did not disdain them, he just didn't care to know them, nor to associate with them whatsoever. I haven't read his works, so I can't vouch for evidence of his sentiments, one way or the other. But he remained firm in his convictions that Muslims would rule the world, and that is why many extremists exploit his vision. The original Muwahhadin is that sect, which was known as Wahhabism by others, after the name of its founder. It was originally not a self-referential term. Just as Catholics invented the term "Lutheran" to descibe those who were influenced by Martin Luther. They did not give this name to themself, and unlike Lutherans, the original sect does not use it to refer to themselves to this day.
Because of his influence in the creation of one of the most powerful Arabic entities, many have laid claim to the term "Wahhabism", which was dominantly used by strict sunni Muslims, for they go "by the book."
The issue is that the Quran is the book the Sunni mean, and The self-written "Book of Unity" (called Kitab at Tawhid) is what the original Muwahhadin meant. His work remains of influence in Mecca, and he is regarded as a very influential scholar in the Sunni sects. His work passes in secret islamic sects, for it ultimately identifies a strategy for the establishment of a Muslim Empire, which is the vision he held for Saudi Arabia, through the reign of Ibn Saud and Aziz.
So, ironically, the easist way to tell someone is not a "wahhabist" is if they declare themself a wahhabist. This usually means they are
1. a sunni (or rarely a shia), and seek to justify their so-called jihad.
2. a conservative muslim who disagrees with extremism, and favors peace.
Someone who adheres to ad dawa lil tawhid (the call to unity) is completely different. They belong to a 200 year old movement that originated in Saud as an attempt to purge nonIslamic elements from their culture and activities.
so, you see, the Western idea of "labels" are not a good way to simplify the situation. Instead of saying "most Muslims in Saudi Arabia are wahhabists." it is more accurate to say "most muslims in Saudi Arabia are sunni, and many identify with the term wahhabism to describe their adherence to the strict edicts of the Quran, because the word implies alot of history."
so, basically, "wahhabism" is a loaded term.
Or at least that's my general understanding from my time and friends in Saudi Arabia. if anything, i am simplifying the deal.
Its now used in many ways.... mostly it is used by those who seek to define as many elements of human existence by the edicts of the Quran.
It is used by some Jihad groups.
It is used by some extremist scholars.
but it is also used by some who simply are expressing they are "sincerely living by the edicts of the Quran" and with no political agenda, nor specific code defined by gender roles.
and it is also used by others who simply are "Arab Islamic Purists", who seek to purge their whole lives of influence from anyone who is not an Arabic Muslim.
So without a personal explanation as to why a person identifies with it, it is of little use to determine their genuine sentiments beyond the fact that they consider their interpretation of Islam to be "the correct one."
------
the situation is much like the term "good bible folk"
doesn't exactly mean they are going to stone the local whore to death in the town square... but some would given the chance, if they didn't suffer the penalties, some would try to convert her or get her to mend her ways, others would refuse to associate with her, and even others have in fact stoned the local whore to death holding that same "good book".
Madrose
Jul 12 2006, 19:15
@raum
You got part of the reality in your post.
In Islam similar to Christianity there are different group following the Christianity but with some differences in the basics and the way they actually perform the spiritual ceremonies, Catholic, Protestant to name few.
In Islam the same exist. Sunni is a term that mean “Way of Life” and used to describe the people who follow and tries to do the spiritual ceremonies the way our prophet Mohammad “Peace be upon him” did it. They relay mainly on the books that was carried from ancestor to ancestor.
Wahhabism is term used to describe a group of Muslims who took the extremist and claimed on the Islam things and Islam is innocent from them.
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