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Man1k3n
QUOTE
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush's plan to send more troops to Iraq is already running into trouble on Capitol Hill, with Republicans joining Democrats in raising eyebrows before the president even makes his case.

Bush, who met on Saturday with his national security team, has tapped new military commanders to lead the war effort and will disclose a new war strategy as early as Wednesday that is expected to include political, military and economic components.

The military solution, which has attracted the most attention and skepticism from Congress, probably will call for an increase in U.S. troops, possibly 9,000 additional troops deployed to Baghdad alone.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, shot down the suggestion of more troops within a day of gaining control of Congress.

"Based on the advice of current and former military leaders, we believe this tactic would be a serious mistake," Reid said in the Democratic radio address Saturday. Instead, Reid and Pelosi want Bush to begin pulling troops out in four to six months.

"Our troops and their families have already sacrificed a great deal for Iraq," Reid said. "They have done their part. It's time for the Iraqis to do their part."

Bush told more than a dozen senators Friday that he would settle on the option only if the Iraqi government offered certain guarantees, according to senators who attended the meeting.
'I have not seen a clarity of mission'

While lawmakers said they were willing to wait and see the entirety of Bush's plan before dismissing it entirely, members -- including some Republicans -- said they remained deeply skeptical about sending more troops.

"My conclusion was that it would be a mistake to send more troops to Baghdad. I think the sectarian violence there requires a political, not a military, solution," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, who had not had a chance yet to meet with the president.

Rep. Heather Wilson, R-New Mexico, an Air Force veteran and member of the House Intelligence Committee, said she would not support increasing troop levels "to do for the Iraqis what the Iraqis will not do for themselves."

"I also have not seen a clarity of mission, and I think that's the greatest weakness that we have right now," Wilson said. "We're talking about goals in lofty terms that are not vital American national interests. American troops should only go in harm's way to protect America's vital interests."

Even Sen. John McCain, a Republican who advocates sending more troops in Iraq, said he wouldn't support sending in the additional forces unless the number was adequate enough to finally tamp down the violence.

"I need to know if it's enough or not," McCain said.

McCain, R-Arizona, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Connecticut, said they think at a minimum another three to five brigades should be sent to Baghdad and one more to Anbar province. About 3,500 troops are in a brigade. About 140,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq now.
New generals tapped to carry out Iraq policy

Sen. Ben Nelson, who was among the small group of senators who met with the president Friday, said he felt Bush was aware of the high stakes and knew he would have to sell any plan to the American public. Bush suggested to the senators there would be "the expectation of the Iraqis carrying out their part of the deal 'or else,"' said Nelson, D-Nebraska.

But Nelson said he and others remained reluctant to endorse any plan that would further stretch the military.

"I don't think there was anything partisan about the skepticism," he said.

Briefings with lawmakers were expected to continue through next week, culminating in a meeting with bipartisan leadership Wednesday, according to lawmakers and aides.

To implement his changed policy in Iraq, Bush is tapping new generals to lead the military campaign.

Bush will nominate Adm. William Fallon, who commands American forces in the Pacific, to replace Gen. John Abizaid as top U.S. commander in the Middle East. Army Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, who headed the effort to train Iraqi security forces, is slated to replace Gen. George Casey as top American general in Iraq. Casey in turn will replace the retiring Gen. Peter Schoomaker as Army chief of staff.

Lawmakers said they were pleased with Bush's selections.

"I hope he matches it with a new strategy that will shift responsibility for security to Iraqis and begin the responsible redeployment of American forces," said Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Missouri, chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


article can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/06/dem...o.ap/index.html


So, President Bush is expected to increase troops in Baghad. I really don't know what to say about the entire matter except one question, "Why are you pursuing this still?" I understand that this may be a new strategy in order for him to actually complete his mission; however with congress the way it is now, I highly doubt he will get the backing he once recieved. Speaking of the backing he once recieved, they too were starting to take a step back and look at the entire situation and started thinking about the option of pulling out also.

Now with congress being controlled by the Democratic party a lot of people are happy, because they feel like that everything is going to change for the better; however I'm slightly at unease. It is not necessarily good for anyone to go from one extreme to another. For excample, that would be like someone who is obese decides to lose weight by methods of bulemia or anorexia. The results can be very negative to say the least. I think the elections this past November was very disturbing, because you had millions of people go out there and simply vote democrat across the board, because mainly of their disapproval of Bush. Many of these people didn't even read a political platform for any of the canidates, they just figured from going one extreme to another would make everything so hunky dory.

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dkreifus
Y'know, all this was making me think. There have been 2 presidents of great significance who have passed away under Bush's presidency. Both have had very good legacies.

I think this has probably caused alot of thought in Bush's mind about his legacy. I mean, Clinton and Bush Sr. were both good presidents. Not the best, not the worst. Both have positive legacies to leave behind.

At this point, I think ol' George W is a bit concerned about his legacy. That his possibly one of the worst presidents to step into office.

So this new plan is possibly an attempt to clean his image by 'winning'
Brains
QUOTE(dkreifus @ Jan 8 2007, 15:51) *

I mean, Clinton and Bush Sr. were both good presidents. Not the best, not the worst. Both have positive legacies to leave behind.

That his (GWB) possibly one of the worst presidents to step into office.

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... and a lot of the old mainland have been telling you guys for years now. noexpression.gif
K2
Don't know whether it is about his legacy, or complete the mission... It's rather about saving what is left.

If you look at the situation today (and forget the entire "should we be there" debate): what are the options?

People who say "bring back the troops" are idiots... They should have said so before the USA went in. Leaving now after destroying the governing elite (whether justified or not) is totally absurd. The USA went in because they felt Saddam became an uncontrolled object in the Middle East. Leave now and the word "uncontrolled" will get a totally different meaning. You will get a civil war that, because of the ethnic Sunni versus Shia factor will become a regional one (Iran, Syria, Saudia-Arabia... you name it). NOT something you want to happen in the worlds petrol station.

So again, what is the alternative?

Just send in more troops and hope the fighting parties in Iraq will get tired before the American soldiers do.

One alternative might be something for the next president: swallow every pride you have and talk to Iran and Syria... Try to make sure that even when the US would leave, the conflict will NEVER get regional, but stays inside Iraq (which seems very unlikely).

And if you don't believe in that last option, then be prepared to take into account that US soldiers will be in Iraq for at least another decade.

Singh400
*smacks forehead*

Bush just doesn't learn does it. He could send 100 billion soliders. It wouldn't make ANY diifference. He needs to try a completely different approach.
Brains
QUOTE(K2 @ Jan 9 2007, 14:08) *

One alternative might be something for the next president: swallow every pride you have and talk to Iran and Syria... Try to make sure that even when the US would leave, the conflict will NEVER get regional, but stays inside Iraq (which seems very unlikely).

which in my simple world view is something the us should already have started doing a long time ago.

instead of defending their strategy time and again, they should apologize in prime-time for the mess they have created. ask for help, input, the view of these countries, listen to it and support these countries cooperatively and financially into making it work.

one can only be considered smart if he is able to admit the mistakes he makes.
dkreifus
QUOTE
one can only be considered smart if he is able to admit the mistakes he makes.

You hit the nail right on the head.
Man1k3n
Now this is an unfortunate turn of events:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/10/iraq.bush/index.html


20,000 more troops. Now think about the number 3,000 carefully and subtract that from 20,000 and keep in mind that the 3,000 you just subtracted will most likely be the number of troops that will not be comming home. I know that this number will be a casualty of war as well as the massive and unfortunate number of civilians that have died in this war, but never the less too much blood and not enough promise.

Brains
oh duh. I could have known...

Bush's "all-new" strategy in some bullet points:
# Raising troop numbers by more than 20,000
# Improving Iraqi security forces' capacity to protect the civilian population
# Setting political benchmarks for the Iraqi government
# Funding a $1bn (£517m) aid and reconstruction programme to economically develop Iraq
# Taking a tough stance towards Iran and Syria, whom Mr Bush accuses of destabilising its neighbour

that'll work. rolleyes.gif
Pr0digy
Jesus, will it ever end?!
Man1k3n
It won't end for probably another 5 or six years I'm sure. Even with a new president in office in 2009, he will not immediately pull the troops out of Iraq, it would cause to many problems. They would be slowly taken out, which will in turn become a long process.

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